Best Christmas gift for me was seeing a new RWTD episode!! Since then, I've had that episode on repeat mode.
As far as I'm concerned, it's the episode I've DREAMED of. Since I'm more of a techy nerd guitar guy, I TOTALLY enjoyed this episode. Even though Edward was my primary influence for picking up the guitar, Satch is my main inspiration for all things music/legato/amp sounds/ to his interviews on his own albums.
Dweezil, I can't thank you enough for this episode. I've had the honor of having one lesson ( and a few meet/greets ) with Joe and I've always enjoyed his perspectives. The F.U.C.K. album was the disc that inspired me to work more on my own sound and the music on that album really jump started my own musical adventures. I cannot wait for part two. You have done stellar work here. Thank you again!
As always, it is great fun to listen to another great episode of ‘Runnin’ With the Dweezil’! Though my general interest in the band ends with the final performance in Honolulu on February 5,1989, it is interesting to hear the minute discussions about the Andy Johns production and the details of Eddie’s then “new” sound. I think you and Joe make excellent points about the neck pickup frequencies and amps and the increased presence of the stereo detune Eventide sound. One thing I must say about that small observation about the use of a chorus “pedal” on ‘Van Halen II’…there is no evidence that he actually used a chorus “pedal” anywhere on the album. I think that it is much more likely that the Eventide units were applied for the chorus sounds that we hear on the second album like what you hear on the intro and quiet parts from “Women In Love”, parts of “Dance the Night Away” and the solos on “Bottoms Up”. To the best of my knowledge, Eddie didn’t use a chorus pedal until 1982 on the ‘Diver Down’ album when he used a Roland DC-30 Chorus/Echo unit-and that technically even that wasn’t a “pedal” per se. A small point, but I think it is possibly a pretty salient one. Generally speaking, the Eventide often did the modulation in the studio with the exception of Ed’s use of the MXR Phase 90, MXR Flanger and the aforementioned Roland DC-30 on ‘Diver Down’.
As always, I enjoy your additions and insights. There is definitely a chorus used on the Women In Love intro. There's a direct guitar along with a clean amp which very well could have been a Roland Jazz Chorus. The clean overdubs in the verses also have the chorus on them. The outro solo on Bottoms Up! has a modulation sound that is delay modulated in the way that a chorus would behave and some early bootlegs show off this modulated sound. It's very different from any sound the phase 90 can make. Not sure what he used. Still also trying to figure out what octave divider he used on Fools. There's a low octave that appears to only react to the lowest notes, leaving the rest untouched. It's audible as part of the recorded guitar sound. Many more mysteries to uncover. Soon there will be answers though! Best, DZ
Excellent points Dweezil! I never even noticed a low octave effect on “Fools”-I’ll be sure to have a careful listen to that track again!
I agree that the sound on the “Women In Love” intro and the quiet parts of that recording do sound very much like a chorus sound and the “Bottoms Up!” outro solo undoubtedly has that unmistakeable delay modulated almost “ADT” sound. Interesting point about the possibility of a Roland Jazz Chorus or similar amp for this chorus sound. I have not seen any evidence of that, but it certainly is possible. There could also have been the DynoMyPiano Tri-Chorus or some other outboard effect that was popular among the session guitarists of the day. I theorize that the clean sounds might have been direct, but it’s always possible that he used an unknown clean amp rather than going direct. Here are a few reasons why I tend to veer away from Ed using a chorus floor pedal for these sounds. It’s not impossible that he did so, but I personally guesstimate that he possibly didn’t. The only pieces of evidence we have to work with (barring anything you may have heard from Donn?) which are our ears and the Sunset Sound Neil Zlozower studio photos (staged or not) from around the time of the recording of the album and photographic evidence of Ed’s stage gear of the time (which may or may not relate 100% to what he used in the studio). We see the Eventide H910 and Gotham Audio Delay System. I believe both of these units could achieve the almost “ADT” delay modulated sound on the outro solo from “Bottoms Up!”. The H910 could also be a candidate for the chorus sound on the “Women In Love” intro and quiet parts.
I hear something else happening on “Dance the Night Away”. It seems to be an Eventide sound and I had always assumed it was the H910. Obviously you can hear this effect best on the isolated track which features harmonic tapping, especially in the quiet “breakdown”. This had a slight phase or flanger sound to me, but it is one that differs from the MXR floor effects. This article https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/eventide-history-pt1?fbclid=IwAR0VzW5FDzpHkYp7i2SOZqfkHUPC94k7TkjG_ogxOgw0qLv28b80HJYkBHs mentions in passing that Van Halen used the early Eventide Instant Phaser at some point. I think that might be a possibility for the modulation in “Dance the Night Away”.
Again, this is slim evidence and I hope we see more coming at some point. And I must state the obvious…I hope against hope that Donn can weigh in…I always say that he is really the Geoff Emerick and sometimes the George Martin of Van Halen (with all due respect to Ted). Assuming his memory or any records he might have kept are intact, he is the last accurate word on what really happened on the recordings from 1977-1989.
Donn has quite a good memory but the recording did take place a long time ago so whenever I can I try to get tidbits of info so these types of nerdy details can be confirmed. It's a fun process of observation though isn't it?
I absolutely agree! And I hope that Donn sees some way to share his remembrances in any way that he can. I hope he understands that his contributions to Van Halen are highly valued by anyone that listens to the music, whether they know it or not!
To slip backward to “Women In Love” once again, I did a little experiment based on Eddie’s explanation of how he recorded the intro. When asked if he used an Eventide Harmonizer, he replied that he did not…but that he double-tracked it. I took this to mean that he did double-track it, and set the resulting tracks slightly apart to create that delay modulation sound that we hear on the album version of the intro. I did the same thing in this clip…I simply set the two tracks I recorded myself slightly apart by about .09 of a second. I included a simple chorus plug-in and compression from the Adobe Audition software I used at the time. I once again used my ‘68 Strat on the Middle/Bridge pickup selection. I think it resulted in a fairly faithful recreation of what he heard on the album:
Good grief Dweezil I just bought the 5150 bundle and I can’t tell you how glad I did. I’m just starting the second Nuno episode and already feel like I got my moneys worth. I have so many questions myself I get so involved in these discussions, but am satisfied with what I’m hearing. It makes me feel so good to know that all of my favorite guitar players like yourself, feel the same awe like wonder when dissecting the greatness of Edward. Thank you so much for doing this and please never stop, I will never get enough. Bravo sir.
I also would like to add after finishing the Nuno episodes, that I have found an even greater respect for Nuno and I didn’t think that would be possible. I’ve been a huge fan of Nuno since he came on the scene and immediately heard the Edward influence, but to hear him geek out over my favorite VH album as well was very satisfying. Both of you together breaking this down was outstanding.
On a different note, I loved the Confessions album as well. Absolutely stellar.
So glad you're enjoying the episodes. Just like you I am still inspired to learn more about Edward's amazing musical skills. Sometimes the episodes take a while but I do my best to make them as good as possible.
Really appreciated your first Joe Satriani episode. An excellent present on Christmas Eve no less. Just knowing Andy Johns was riding the faders whilst mixing Joe using a wah pedal in order to keep his frequencies cutting through the mix….that is so inspiring to know that it isn’t just the rest of us muggles that struggle with the frequency balancing act. So much great guitar nerd info as well as production insights. For example I did not know that round wound strings give off harmonics that are slightly flat. Or all the inherent problems you need to consider that arise when making your guitar signal stereo. He sounded a bit embarrassed to delve into so much detail for stuff like that, but like you said….”you’d be surprised that some of our listeners would definitely appreciate” (I am paraphrasing). So if you ever talk to Joe again relay the message that his insights were great. Looking forward to the second part!
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Best Christmas gift for me was seeing a new RWTD episode!! Since then, I've had that episode on repeat mode.
As far as I'm concerned, it's the episode I've DREAMED of. Since I'm more of a techy nerd guitar guy, I TOTALLY enjoyed this episode. Even though Edward was my primary influence for picking up the guitar, Satch is my main inspiration for all things music/legato/amp sounds/ to his interviews on his own albums.
Dweezil, I can't thank you enough for this episode. I've had the honor of having one lesson ( and a few meet/greets ) with Joe and I've always enjoyed his perspectives. The F.U.C.K. album was the disc that inspired me to work more on my own sound and the music on that album really jump started my own musical adventures. I cannot wait for part two. You have done stellar work here. Thank you again!
Best wishes and happy new year!
Can anyone tell me if the episode over the Cherone and Different Kind of Truth are available yet? Much thanks
Not yet, Dweezil just released the 1st episode regarding the FUCK album the other day.
As always, it is great fun to listen to another great episode of ‘Runnin’ With the Dweezil’! Though my general interest in the band ends with the final performance in Honolulu on February 5,1989, it is interesting to hear the minute discussions about the Andy Johns production and the details of Eddie’s then “new” sound. I think you and Joe make excellent points about the neck pickup frequencies and amps and the increased presence of the stereo detune Eventide sound. One thing I must say about that small observation about the use of a chorus “pedal” on ‘Van Halen II’…there is no evidence that he actually used a chorus “pedal” anywhere on the album. I think that it is much more likely that the Eventide units were applied for the chorus sounds that we hear on the second album like what you hear on the intro and quiet parts from “Women In Love”, parts of “Dance the Night Away” and the solos on “Bottoms Up”. To the best of my knowledge, Eddie didn’t use a chorus pedal until 1982 on the ‘Diver Down’ album when he used a Roland DC-30 Chorus/Echo unit-and that technically even that wasn’t a “pedal” per se. A small point, but I think it is possibly a pretty salient one. Generally speaking, the Eventide often did the modulation in the studio with the exception of Ed’s use of the MXR Phase 90, MXR Flanger and the aforementioned Roland DC-30 on ‘Diver Down’.
Hi Allen,
As always, I enjoy your additions and insights. There is definitely a chorus used on the Women In Love intro. There's a direct guitar along with a clean amp which very well could have been a Roland Jazz Chorus. The clean overdubs in the verses also have the chorus on them. The outro solo on Bottoms Up! has a modulation sound that is delay modulated in the way that a chorus would behave and some early bootlegs show off this modulated sound. It's very different from any sound the phase 90 can make. Not sure what he used. Still also trying to figure out what octave divider he used on Fools. There's a low octave that appears to only react to the lowest notes, leaving the rest untouched. It's audible as part of the recorded guitar sound. Many more mysteries to uncover. Soon there will be answers though! Best, DZ
Excellent points Dweezil! I never even noticed a low octave effect on “Fools”-I’ll be sure to have a careful listen to that track again!
I agree that the sound on the “Women In Love” intro and the quiet parts of that recording do sound very much like a chorus sound and the “Bottoms Up!” outro solo undoubtedly has that unmistakeable delay modulated almost “ADT” sound. Interesting point about the possibility of a Roland Jazz Chorus or similar amp for this chorus sound. I have not seen any evidence of that, but it certainly is possible. There could also have been the DynoMyPiano Tri-Chorus or some other outboard effect that was popular among the session guitarists of the day. I theorize that the clean sounds might have been direct, but it’s always possible that he used an unknown clean amp rather than going direct.
Here are a few reasons why I tend to veer away from Ed using a chorus floor pedal for these sounds. It’s not impossible that he did so, but I personally guesstimate that he possibly didn’t. The only pieces of evidence we have to work with (barring anything you may have heard from Donn?) which are our ears and the Sunset Sound Neil Zlozower studio photos (staged or not) from around the time of the recording of the album and photographic evidence of Ed’s stage gear of the time (which may or may not relate 100% to what he used in the studio). We see the Eventide H910 and Gotham Audio Delay System. I believe both of these units could achieve the almost “ADT” delay modulated sound on the outro solo from “Bottoms Up!”. The H910 could also be a candidate for the chorus sound on the “Women In Love” intro and quiet parts.
I hear something else happening on “Dance the Night Away”. It seems to be an Eventide sound and I had always assumed it was the H910. Obviously you can hear this effect best on the isolated track which features harmonic tapping, especially in the quiet “breakdown”. This had a slight phase or flanger sound to me, but it is one that differs from the MXR floor effects. This article https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/eventide-history-pt1?fbclid=IwAR0VzW5FDzpHkYp7i2SOZqfkHUPC94k7TkjG_ogxOgw0qLv28b80HJYkBHs mentions in passing that Van Halen used the early Eventide Instant Phaser at some point. I think that might be a possibility for the modulation in “Dance the Night Away”.
Again, this is slim evidence and I hope we see more coming at some point. And I must state the obvious…I hope against hope that Donn can weigh in…I always say that he is really the Geoff Emerick and sometimes the George Martin of Van Halen (with all due respect to Ted). Assuming his memory or any records he might have kept are intact, he is the last accurate word on what really happened on the recordings from 1977-1989.
Hi Allen,
Donn has quite a good memory but the recording did take place a long time ago so whenever I can I try to get tidbits of info so these types of nerdy details can be confirmed. It's a fun process of observation though isn't it?
I absolutely agree! And I hope that Donn sees some way to share his remembrances in any way that he can. I hope he understands that his contributions to Van Halen are highly valued by anyone that listens to the music, whether they know it or not!
To slip backward to “Women In Love” once again, I did a little experiment based on Eddie’s explanation of how he recorded the intro. When asked if he used an Eventide Harmonizer, he replied that he did not…but that he double-tracked it. I took this to mean that he did double-track it, and set the resulting tracks slightly apart to create that delay modulation sound that we hear on the album version of the intro. I did the same thing in this clip…I simply set the two tracks I recorded myself slightly apart by about .09 of a second. I included a simple chorus plug-in and compression from the Adobe Audition software I used at the time. I once again used my ‘68 Strat on the Middle/Bridge pickup selection. I think it resulted in a fairly faithful recreation of what he heard on the album:
Good grief Dweezil I just bought the 5150 bundle and I can’t tell you how glad I did. I’m just starting the second Nuno episode and already feel like I got my moneys worth. I have so many questions myself I get so involved in these discussions, but am satisfied with what I’m hearing. It makes me feel so good to know that all of my favorite guitar players like yourself, feel the same awe like wonder when dissecting the greatness of Edward. Thank you so much for doing this and please never stop, I will never get enough. Bravo sir.
I also would like to add after finishing the Nuno episodes, that I have found an even greater respect for Nuno and I didn’t think that would be possible. I’ve been a huge fan of Nuno since he came on the scene and immediately heard the Edward influence, but to hear him geek out over my favorite VH album as well was very satisfying. Both of you together breaking this down was outstanding.
On a different note, I loved the Confessions album as well. Absolutely stellar.
So glad you're enjoying the episodes. Just like you I am still inspired to learn more about Edward's amazing musical skills. Sometimes the episodes take a while but I do my best to make them as good as possible.
Really appreciated your first Joe Satriani episode. An excellent present on Christmas Eve no less. Just knowing Andy Johns was riding the faders whilst mixing Joe using a wah pedal in order to keep his frequencies cutting through the mix….that is so inspiring to know that it isn’t just the rest of us muggles that struggle with the frequency balancing act. So much great guitar nerd info as well as production insights. For example I did not know that round wound strings give off harmonics that are slightly flat. Or all the inherent problems you need to consider that arise when making your guitar signal stereo. He sounded a bit embarrassed to delve into so much detail for stuff like that, but like you said….”you’d be surprised that some of our listeners would definitely appreciate” (I am paraphrasing). So if you ever talk to Joe again relay the message that his insights were great. Looking forward to the second part!
Mike